Dream chaser

Dreams took hold of Werner Herzog early in his life. Because that’s all he had.

Born in Munich just before the Allies bombed it during World War II, Herzog and his family fled to a remote village in Bavaria and lived there in poverty for most of his childhood.

With no telephone, no running water, and definitely no television, the young Herzog had to use his mind to entertain himself. By his teens, he became drawn to the written word, putting the wild ideas in his mind on the page.

“When I was about 13 or 14, I knew I was a poet,” Herzog told Business Insider. “And then, of course, I knew I had to make films. Although I had hardly ever seen any films. The very first time I had noticed that there was such a thing like movies was when I was 11.” 

Herzog quickly made up for lost time, using the medium as a portal to making his dreams a reality. Fast forward seven decades, and the filmmaker, now 83, has over 70 movie credits.

From his classic movies that cemented his fascination with faraway lands, like 1972’s “Aguirre, the Wrath of God” and 1982’s “Fitzcarraldo,” to his idiosyncratic documentaries about everything from the harrowing life and death of a bear enthusiast (“Grizzly Man”) to people who choose to live in Antarctica (“Encounters at the End of the World”), Herzog’s films put the spotlight on eccentrics with big dreams.

His latest documentary, “Ghost Elephants,” is similarly on-theme. The film follows South African explorer Steve Boyes as he sets out to record evidence of an undiscovered species of elephant that’s thought to reside deep in the Angola highlands.

Though it’s a doc set in nature, Herzog is certain his elephant documentary isn’t really about elephants at all. “It is not a wildlife film,” he said. It’s more about the search for something greater. “I introduce this idea of, would it not be better to only have our dreams and never fulfill them?”

In our latest “Director’s Chair” interview, the legendary filmmaker discusses why dreams are sometimes better than reality, how he plans to protect his iconic voice in the age of AI, and if it ever gets tiring being Werner Herzog.

On finding his documentary subject in a Beverly Hills restaurant and the most beautiful footage he’s ever shot

Business Insider: “Ghost Elephants” is very much about the power of dreams. But it also has the feel of “Moby Dick.”

Werner Herzog: This is a quest, a little bit after the White Whale. The unknown. But you’re right when you say it’s more about dreams of very large elephants. You barely see any elephants in the movie. However, you see some of them underwater, and they are purely like dreams. And I must say it’s some of the most beautiful footage you can ever see in any of my films. 

That’s a bold statement, given all the memorable footage you have given the world over your career, but I agree.

At first, the camera would start from the water and then emerge to show the elephants in the water up to their chests. All of the sudden they were realistic. And I said, “No, I want long shots underwater, I never want the camera to emerge into the real world.” 

Is it true this project started simply with a chance encounter with Steve Boyes?

A good friend of mine who is good friends with Steve Boyes immediately saw a connection. I was in Los Angeles and the friend said, “Come down quickly. There’s someone you must meet.” And it was to a restaurant in Beverly Hills, of all places.

I knew immediately that Steve was perfect as a leading central character. He has a charisma, he has an elegance, he has a depth. He has it all for carrying a film. But he’s not obsessive. He’s very curious and very tenacious; he has perseverance. He was patient more than 10 years to see a ghost elephant. 

While making “Ghost Elephants,” did you ever think that it might be a better story if Steve didn’t find the elephants?

We had to reckon with that possibility, and I keep it alive in my commentary: “Couldn’t it be better that we only have these dreams, that we have these ceremonies, that we speak about spirits, about dreams, about ghosts, and not ever see them?” When he finds them, in my commentary I said: “Now Steven Boyes has to live with his success.” And that’s a big statement. 

Does success live up to the dream?

I think it’s not only a question prevailing in this film, but it is also a question prevailing in all human life. The dreams that we have, the aspirations that we have, ghosts with whom we live, is it potentially better never to encounter our ghosts? Never to realize our dreams?

On his famous ‘nihilist penguin’ scene and improvising his cameo in ‘Parks and Recreation’

I want to hear more about your narration process. Is it correct that when you see footage in post-production that catches your eye, like the underwater elephant footage, you instantly begin to write the narration for that scene and then immediately go and record it?

The film emerges from its footage. It’s not that there is a superimposed script and commentary. I write the commentary when the footage emerges in editing. And I write it instantly and record it instantly. I have a microphone and a little recording booth six feet behind me. I do the recording instantly, and I fit it in the edit instantly.

I keep preaching to young filmmakers, do not submit your footage to the scriptures of a pre-fabricated idea, commentary, and ideology. Let the footage emerge and do its job, and then you follow. That’s the way I’ve done all my films. 

Why is spontaneity so important in this process?

You have to see it right in front of you and you have to have a worldview. A clear worldview — not just randomly commenting. It comes with great ease and I love to do it that way.

So, for example, in “Encounters at the End of the World,” you see the footage of the penguin splitting from the pack and walking to the mountains off in the horizon in post. You instantly then wrote your narration and recorded it?

Yes. Exactly. 

Amazing. 

When you see a penguin walking toward the mountains, of course, I have to tell the audience, you’re not allowed to rescue the penguin. You have to leave wildlife in peace. If you return the penguin back to its colony it would angrily turn back to the mountains, where it will perish. The rules for human beings are do not touch the penguin, leave it on its voyage. Leave it alone. We must respect nature, even in individual self-destruction. 

Because of this gift for prose, could you not help yourself in changing some of the dialogue you were given on “The Mandalorian”? 

In a way; an actor is always an architect of their own performance. But the show’s creator, Jon Favreau, loves my work, and he told me explicitly he hired me because he wanted a large audience out there in the world to see what I look like.

However, when I guest-starred on “Parks & Recreation,” I’ve never seen it, but I’m in an episode where I’m selling my home, and when we were done shooting, I said to the team, “I would like to add something to the text. Can I speak right into the camera?” And I said straight to the audience: “I’ve lived in this home for 47 years, but I’m selling it now because I want to move to Orlando, Florida, to be close to Disney World.”

And people peed their pants. 

On AI impersonations of his voice and refusing to work overtime

What interests you at the moment? Acting? Directing another documentary? Or doing a scripted feature?

Well, while we are sitting here, I have a finished feature film, “Bucking Fastard,” which needs an audience. And a fortnight ago, I started shooting a new film in Mexico. Three weeks from now, I will continue shooting in Austria. It’s a documentary.

What’s the latest with “Bucking Fastard”?

I don’t know. We’re trying to get it into one of the big festivals. 

But the picture is locked?

Yes. It’s not touched by me or anyone anymore. 

Your voice and your persona are so iconic. Have you thought at all about protecting them in the era of AI, especially once you go to the great beyond?

I couldn’t care less about prosperity. I’m not going to be around anymore. 

But just the protection of how your voice is portrayed going forward. Or does that not concern you?

In some way, yes, because amateurs who try to imitate my voice are not as good as AI. AI is the best voice so far. And, of course, I know there will be legal protection of my likeness, including my voice. There are laws in existence, but also I’m a member of the DGA, and of the Screen Actors Guild, I’m a union guy, and one of the main concerns of both guilds is artificial intelligence and abusing your likeness. 

Some have gone a step further, like Michael Caine and Matthew McConaughey, who have allowed an AI company to replicate their voices. 

I’m not going to sell anything to AI. I would rather save a lot of money and buy AI and prohibit them from doing it. 

You are a child of poverty. You didn’t see your first movie until you were 11, but you’ve gone on to become a legendary filmmaker, author, and actor. But does it get tiresome being the “Werner Herzog” persona?

No, I’m at ease. People think I’m a workaholic because I’ve made so many films and have acted, written books, staged operas. But my shooting days are short. On “Bucking Fastard,” my shooting days were done around 4. In my entire life, I’ve never had a single hour of overtime in any of my films. I have a lot of leisure time. I read. I enjoy the company of friends. 

But can the persona thrust upon you, the man with the deep prose, the man who loves playing villains on screen, be daunting at times?

It’s not my problem; it’s your problem. I live my life, and I barely see and notice what is out there because, personally, I’m not on social media. Even though I opened an Instagram account, my younger son handles it. I don’t even know how to post something. I create the content, and he posts it. I can’t even see it because I don’t even have a cell phone. 

It’s a very good life. 

This interview has been condensed and edited for clarity.

“Ghost Elephants” is now streaming on Disney+ and Hulu.